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Oil or not to oil?

Discussion in 'Ask The Pros' started by Reedy26, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. Reedy26

    Reedy26 Pinewood Ninja

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    So last year we did graphite. Dominated the pack race and ended up getting second at district by about 2-3 car lengths. Some of this was due to my misunderstanding of the rules and we did not turn the wheels at all. I just polished the bores, packed them with graphite and went racing.

    So this year we want to maximize our performance. Wheels will be turned and while reading the rules came across these excerpts regarding axle lube. My interpretation is that we can use oil.

    My understanding from previous post's is that our council uses a modified version of the mid america rules.
     

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  2. DerbyDoctor

    DerbyDoctor Pack Champion

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    If those are the only rules regarding axle lubrication than it appears you could use it, however, the common consensus is that unless it says you can use oil or you know that others are using it, you should probably ask those in charge of the derby if it's legal, to avoid a race day issue and an upset kid.
     
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  3. Racing358t

    Racing358t Rail Runner Pro Race Winner Pro Racer

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    I'd use oil if those were my rules. I wouldn't even ask. There is nothing in those rules that says you can't and they imply that you can. I can guarntee others are gonna use oil with that ruleset. I understand verifying but if I verified and was told no but then later found out others were that would be a bigger mess. IMO, there are no implied rules.

    Scott
     
  4. Mojo Racing

    Mojo Racing National Contender Pro Racer

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    Ask.

    That first pic is the bottom of the page that tells all the things that you cannot have on your car.
     
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  5. Loud2ns

    Loud2ns Rail Runner

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    I agree, ask. It says oil in the list of prohibited items.
     
  6. Racing358t

    Racing358t Rail Runner Pro Race Winner Pro Racer

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    It has in parenthesis "Other than AXLE lubrication" in the same sentence. To me that says it is ok as long as the oil is ONLY being used as lube in the bore.

    Just clarifying my reasoning before it gets twisted into something it isn't

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
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  7. Deckard

    Deckard Pinewood Ninja

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    I first read that sentence as they allow oil. But the second read through made me think that the phrase in parens(other than axle lube) is in reference to powders. And since oil is spelled out I think it wouldn't be allowed. But I think you should ask.
     
  8. Loud2ns

    Loud2ns Rail Runner

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    Would you use wet paint for axle lubrication? Lol
    They should make their intentions more clear. That would remove all doubt.
     
  9. Jimmy & his 2 Kids

    Jimmy & his 2 Kids National Contender

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    In all this funny thing is most times they are banning oil for the fear of a car dripping something like WD40 all over the track when a properly oiled car using the appropriate PWD oil doesn’t even show there’s oil on it.
     
  10. Pinewood Outlaw

    Pinewood Outlaw Council Champion

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    Yeah that is the point of view of our District Pinewood Derby Chairman. The guy ran the races for 25 years. I use to run District race for last 3 years and changed the rule thus allowing oil and OMG this guy had a fit. Since the previous rules had been around for 25 years he seen no point in changing them. The whole thing caused such a fuss that eventually the District gave the race back to this guy...telling me they had to change District Positions every 3 years. I asked where in the Official Rules and Regulations it stated that(as it doesn't) and was told those Official Rules are just loose guidelines....wonder if national BSA feels that they are lol
     
  11. Jimmy & his 2 Kids

    Jimmy & his 2 Kids National Contender

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    All I know is this... after years of reading these Scout rule arguments and horror stories I am glad we only race Awana. Lol
     
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  12. Mojo Racing

    Mojo Racing National Contender Pro Racer

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    take a pic of the Krytox oil they sell in your local scout shop and show it to him. Then ask WHY they would sell that if it was not something that is coming around these days.
     
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  13. Pinewood Outlaw

    Pinewood Outlaw Council Champion

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    I did that...I even surveyed the other Districts in our Council. Some allowed oil, some didn't either because they never heard of it or out of ignorance of the proper use of oil wouldn't allow it.
     
  14. Gso125 Racing

    Gso125 Racing Workshop Leader Pro Race Winner Pro Racer

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    I wish they would get rid of graphite haha. I did the check in this year and I had to add graphite to about 35 out of 45 cars almost no one added it at home. It was so messy the custodian was not happy with the floor around the check in table and it was tracked into the cafeteria where the race was and kids were running around very slippery. Breathing in that crap can’t be to good either still blowing it out into a tissue the next day. I’m only guessing it’s the cost for one of the reasons they don’t want to switch to oil. Much cleaner and safer in my opinion
     
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  15. Mojo Racing

    Mojo Racing National Contender Pro Racer

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    they talk about the oil messing up the track... take a pic of the graphite on the track AFTER CLEANING and show them... then point out they have no leg to stand on
     
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  16. Racing358t

    Racing358t Rail Runner Pro Race Winner Pro Racer

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    Not wet but dried Maybe? Depends what the paint has in it and how hard it cures?

    I understand your sarcasm though. And I chuckled at it. LOL

    But it also says oil right next to paint. I agree that they should clarify better but do not agree that oil is not allowed as shown in the pics of the rules here in this thread. Maybe there is more somewhere else in the rules. But, I was deciphering the rules as shown not the intended unsaid rules.

    You coming to APR in a couple weeks?

    Scott
     
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  17. Loud2ns

    Loud2ns Rail Runner

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    Hmmm, how hard it would cure.

    I'm glad you saw through the little poke.

    Not sure if we'll be back or not. I was intending on sending in June to the finals..... not sure.
     
  18. Charles Studer

    Charles Studer League Racer Pro Racer

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    Dry powders (except for lubrication)

    That statement is contained by the commas

    No oil, as written

    Play dumb and ask for lubrication only.....not as an oil stain for the body
     
  19. Thinkin'Bout Racin

    Thinkin'Bout Racin National Contender

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    I agree with this .....not being an English teacher and not fully understanding all the rules of punctuation, I read the rules and was confused at first. I reread them several times and it was still not clear to my simple mind.

    The phrase listed in number 4. " or powders of any kind (except for lubrication)" is at the end of a sentence of items that is contained in items that are from Section 2.9.

    Rule Section 2.9 is a larger list of items that are Prohibited.

    So I believe the way it is written means that you can not use powders anywhere on the car except for axle lubrication. So no graphite on the body and no graphite on the wheels? Clear as mud?

    Sometimes I think I read things the way I would like them to read, so as to create a possible advantage. I think this might be one of those times?

    There is NO doubt that it could be written differently and be much clearer to the average person. Especially for a simple mind like mine!!!
     
  20. Chief

    Chief PWD Royalty

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    Liquid = oil, powder = graphite AND IT SAYS....."OTHER THAN in axle lubrication"!
    Run oil the way you have learned from the forum, and win
     
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