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Transition

Discussion in 'Ask The Pros' started by Reggie, Mar 8, 2020.

  1. Reggie

    Reggie District Champion

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    Well my son just finished his last race as a cub scout and he has expressed his desire to not race in the future. Now it's time for dad continue in league racing.
    To be competitive I have to learn the oil process. With so many axle and wheel polishes and oils just sold by John alone.
    Where do I start? What was the standard in 2010 is now probably obsolete. With things like jig-a-loo and using pledge and dupont teflon it's all a bit confusing for a newbie that only knows graphite.
    I have experimented with krytox on a couple of cars and I thought I was on to something. It turns out the fast times that I was getting were due to a very inaccurate and cheap timing system that I bought on the internet. Anyway where do I go from here does anyone have any advice to steer me in the right direction?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
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  2. HurriCrane Racing

    HurriCrane Racing PWD Royalty 25+ Pro Race Wins! Pro Racer National Champion

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    Where do you go from here? Well, start with the BASX class. Very similar to a scout build. Trash the Pledge, you won't need that anymore. Any of the bore and axle systems can be used to make a competitive car Work on your wheel and axle prep. You'll love the oil process once you get the hang of it. No more graphite contaminating everything and getting everywhere!

    Be ready for a bit of a shock when you first start racing. Some of these guys in league racing can build really fast cars. Learning to be competitive is the most fun part of the hobby. Good Luck!
     
  3. B_Regal Racing

    B_Regal Racing PWD Royalty Pro Racer

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    You probably have seen polishing videos for wheels and axles on DD4H and other sites. You've seen the Lighting Boy alignment checks.

    1. Shake can of Jig (1 min). Optional: you can use DuPont Chainsaver (yellow can) or Max Pro silicone spray from Lowes/HD/Walmart

    2. Spray Jig on clean / polished axles (from 3 different angles, 1 second sweeping spray motion) from 18 to 24 inches away. Shake off excess.

    3. Cover axles for 15 minutes. I have a small plastic block where I drilled 1/8” deep holes so the axles can “stand” without touching anything. I do not just throw them in a zip lock bag nor do I use a wood stand for fear of contaminating the axles with cellulose.

    4. Blow out wheel bore with compressed air

    5. Inspect bore with mag. glass one last time

    6. Ensure 15 minutes has passed before inserting axle in wire (jig will still appear to be "wet")

    7. No more than 1 drop of oil between axle head and hub (Holy Water or oil of your choice). Holding the point of the nail (not touching the part that contacts the wheel, spin/twist the drop of oil so it covers where the wheel will ride. Then tip the axle down so the drop runs to the nail head. Spin once more and then shake off the excess oil

    8. Insert axle in wheel

    9. Holding axle, spin wheel with wheel resting on axle head (should be no sound e.g. clicking), Noise could mean a hub or bore problem (assuming you are using SS axles.

    10. Install wheel in car. Leave as small as gap as possible (rear) without loss of speed.

    11. Spin wheel (should be no sound e.g. clicking). You will get used to what sound is normal

    12. Test the car on a clean glass surface. Listen for noises. Again, you will get used to what sound is normal. I can teel if a car is fast just by listening to it.

    The above is a basic process and where I started, and you can find it here reading the different threads. I have modified it many times as I learned to get faster taking into consideration my abilities, $$$ available, and the tools I have, but what works for me may not work for you. Like HurriCrane said, BASX is the best class to start in. Don't worry about a specific wax or oil - it makes no difference when you start out. Get the basics down first, race yourself, and get faster. The top racers can make 10w-40 motor oil fast because they know how to prep a car; they have been doing it a long time.
     
  4. B_Regal Racing

    B_Regal Racing PWD Royalty Pro Racer

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    And not to start a flame war, but if you are bending axles, don't. Buy a drill jig to drill your rears while you learn the basics. It is one tool every pro racer has. Yes they are expensive, but it will save you from endless frustration. When you can build multiple cars that run at a consistent speed (e.g. have the prep process down cold), you can return to bending axles if you so choose, but at this phase, it will only be a nightmare for you.
     
  5. Reggie

    Reggie District Champion

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    This great! Gives a better understanding of how it works. Thank you.
     
  6. Reggie

    Reggie District Champion

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    I don't bend them I used Jeffs clear jig on my son's scout cars. I'm going to get the silver bullet extreme. More versatile with wheelbases.
     
  7. Racing358t

    Racing358t Rail Runner Pro Race Winner Pro Racer

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    I agree on the starting in BASX. It is an easier build but by no means is an easy class to win. Not to imply that any of the classes are easy though.

    Besides the basics that B-regal covered the wheels are very important. Be sure to get some BASX specific wheels from one of the vendors or many of us league racers will cut them for you also.

    I use the aluminum version of Jeffs jig. I can do any wheelbase I want with it. No matter the drill jig you will need to verify the drills and practice to get good at producing "good drills".

    Good luck and have fun.

    Scott
     
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  8. tomb

    tomb Pinewood Ninja

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    Is there a trick/best method when drilling with either Jeff's or John's jig or is it just a matter of repetition and practice? Is it better to use a cordless drill or a small manual hand drill (i've seen them sold by some vendors). I use a cordless and I feel like no matter what I do, when I use the Lightning Boy test, I have toe in or out on at least one side. How crucial is it that both sides are perfect?
     
  9. T-Bone Racing

    T-Bone Racing Workshop Leader

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    You’ll want to use a hand drill, aka, a pin vise. Make sure that the plank fits snug in the jig, clamp it all the way to the bottom of the jig, and then drill. Do not move the plank between doing both rears or your drill will be messed up.

    As for the second question, it depends on how much toe in or toe out you have. Some people have argued that a little of either actually helps the car. However, if you’re using the 1-2-3 block method with the pins and there is a big gap on the one side, then it is too much.

    Hope that helps!
     
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  10. tomb

    tomb Pinewood Ninja

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    Very helpful, thanks...I'll invest in a pin vise hand drill. I feel like my big heavy cordless drill is hard to keep perfectly straight no matter how snug the drill bit is in the jig. It just seems like there's bound to be a little bit of play.

    Also, if the plank is not completely snug in the jig, I thought about investing in some good feeler gauges to shim on each side just before the wholes while drilling the rears. Not as ideal as a perfectly snug block but it might be a solution in a pinch.

    Thanks again
     
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  11. tomb

    tomb Pinewood Ninja

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    If your wood block is not perfectly square, would it be fair to say that the detailed lightning boy test goes out the window? Is it possible to test and does it even matter if the drill is perpendicular to the block if the block itself is not perfectly square? When loading the wood block into the Silver Bullet/The Block, there's more of a gap on the front of the car than the back.
     
  12. Jupiter 2.9

    Jupiter 2.9 Council Champion Pro Racer

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    You don’t want the body to dog leg down the track. I have added painters tape on the sides to tighten up bad blocks in the jig.
    The lighting boy thing is a way to verify toe, cant & plane of the drill. If the block is not square, the plane will be off. The toe could be equal but not on the same plane, causing the body to dog leg while the wheels may track true.
    Start with a good block or the problems will compound themselves as you move forward.
     
  13. tomb

    tomb Pinewood Ninja

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    I didn't even think to check this in the past because the blocks have fit tight into the jig but this time I had to insert feeler gauges on each side to tighten it up but now I'm noticing that shimming with feeler gauges was only covering up the flaws of the block. Is it unrealistic to expect perfectly square blocks from the vendors; is it common and expected to need to true up a vendor's block before drilling and how would one do this without a planer? Do most builders/pros make their own blocks to make certain they are perfect before drilling?
     
  14. ScoutDadinVA

    ScoutDadinVA Pinewood Ninja

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    I plan on sanding mine using a piece of sandpaper glued to sheet glass to get to perfect dimensions. I dimension my own blocks, no vendors.
     
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  15. ScoutDadinVA

    ScoutDadinVA Pinewood Ninja

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    So if you do go down this route you have to account for some wood movement depending how long your block is sitting around..i heard pros seal it to stop the block from moving once dimensioned to near final specs.
     
  16. tomb

    tomb Pinewood Ninja

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    So you're referring to if you cut a supply of blocks all at once and then they sit in your shop over time?
     
  17. ScoutDadinVA

    ScoutDadinVA Pinewood Ninja

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    Yes that is what I am doing to have 9 for next year then 9 the year after. 3 for each of us then 2 each to practice on and in case of mistakes. Got some sugar pine off craigslist for 20 bucks...about 9 board feet. So if i wanted.. could mill 150+ blocks at .25 inch thickness. Just need the wood to adjust to shop RH.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2022
  18. tomb

    tomb Pinewood Ninja

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    Nice; I don't really have access to sugar pine that I know of so it's either the premium high dollar pine from Menards or Lowes or Poplar. We'll have four cars between us and hopefully there aren't many mistakes but it seems like there's always something (teaching kids to use a router is an adventure).
     
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  19. ScoutDadinVA

    ScoutDadinVA Pinewood Ninja

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    Ha yes. I think a dremel is the most we are comfortable with at this point. Ive heard Eastern White Pine is very stable and fairly light density, so if you can find.. that might be a winner.
     
  20. Chief

    Chief PWD Royalty

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    B Regal...great advice!! Only thing I would say is type in keywords in the search bar on the forum and read, read, and read some more. I used a spiral note book and took notes on things that I found to include where I found it and who said it!!!
     

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